Recent Purchase, Should I be dissapointed or embarrased?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Captain Pinball on February 20, 2010 at 4:24pm

Matt
I totally disagree with you, on one aspect. Multicade boards are bootleg yes but they are not cheap copies IMO. I have been building these games for 12 years now. Back when they were 3 in1 (Ms Pac,Galaga,DK). Out of all the multicades I have made not one "Yes, NOT ONE" has come back to me from a customer. I have had maybe 3 shipped to me defective and my supplier gladly exchanged them. The 4 in 1 had a Ms Pac flaw that was fixed when the 6 in 1 came out. Like the multicade or not thats your opinion and I will respect it. Bottom line its a money maker and I will be the first to admit I have made a ton of money off them. I do not misrepresent them I tell it like it is. I do not want to steer away from this topic to much but IMO Namco shot themselves in the foot. They made the Galaga/Ms Pac reunion game but would not sell just the board to anyone. You had to have the serial number off your dedicated cabinet or they would not sell you the game board. The board alone was $650... That forced operators to look for alternative solutions and the multicade board fit the bill and still does to this day. In this economy I cant blame anyone to look for a better deal. If your going to sit back and tell me the Galaga/ms Pac Namco board is a better investement then the 60-1 then I humbly disagree. Not to mention its much easier to sell a 60-1 to a homeowner for $900 vs a dedicated Ms Pac for $500-$600. The multicade did kill the market on classic games almost as bad as the home console games. Like them, hate them, love them it really does not matter they are still going to thrive in this market. As a homeowner you have to be very cautious as there are alot of knuckleheads making these things that have no idea what they are doing. I still think you are being way to hard on the original poster.. He is a newbie that just made a bad decision with out doing his homework.

Matt Szlemko said:

Multiboards are bootleg board from china just like bootleg dvds or downloaded music. It's up to you if you consider them morally wrong, but the people making them and use them in their products are just looking to make a buck, not keep the quality of their product high. And they are cheap in comparison to buying a legitimate mint copy of each game. $1000 is a lot, but compaired to a minty donkey kong, donkey kong jr. and donkey kong 3, it was very very cheap. From my point of view you bought a rolex watch on the street corner, and are surprised its doesn't keep good time.

Like i said, i don't want to sound like a jerk, but that is the situation. It's a shame you didn't receive what you expected, but your expectations seem to be to high. If you purchase another multiboard cabinet, its going to be the same situation, you won't really know what you will receive unless you see it in person. It's gonna be made in some guys garage or basement, and he might be in business the next day or he might not.

Christopher Sockrider said:

I'm a little confused about this last post. I would not have considered the items I purchased to be cheap or illegal. Perhaps someone could explain.

Matt Szlemko said:

So you went shopping for a bootleg arcade cabinet and are surprised that you got a bootleg arcade cabinet? If you are trying to be cheap and buy illegal stuff, you shouldn't have high expectations. Most sellers are just looking to make a quick buck of people too cheap to buy the real thing. That might sound harsh, but it's just the simple truth.

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Permalink Reply by Captain Pinball on February 20, 2010 at 4:48pm

Matt
Also I want you to explain this sentence. "And they are cheap in comparison to buying a legitimate mint copy of each game". I am confused as to what you mean? Buying a brand new dedicated Donkey Kong board? I did not know you could buy brand new DK Nintendo boards? Last point I want to bring up as a home owner (Not arcade collector like we all are) would you rather have a game board that plays 60 games in an arcade cabinet that was made in 2010 or a board that was made 35 years ago? Which one do you think will cause you grief sooner down the road?

Captain Pinball said:

Matt
I totally disagree with you, on one aspect. Multicade boards are bootleg yes but they are not cheap copies IMO. I have been building these games for 12 years now. Back when they were 3 in1 (Ms Pac,Galaga,DK). Out of all the multicades I have made not one "Yes, NOT ONE" has come back to me from a customer. I have had maybe 3 shipped to me defective and my supplier gladly exchanged them. The 4 in 1 had a Ms Pac flaw that was fixed when the 6 in 1 came out. Like the multicade or not thats your opinion and I will respect it. Bottom line its a money maker and I will be the first to admit I have made a ton of money off them. I do not misrepresent them I tell it like it is. I do not want to steer away from this topic to much but IMO Namco shot themselves in the foot. They made the Galaga/Ms Pac reunion game but would not sell just the board to anyone. You had to have the serial number off your dedicated cabinet or they would not sell you the game board. The board alone was $650... That forced operators to look for alternative solutions and the multicade board fit the bill and still does to this day. In this economy I cant blame anyone to look for a better deal. If your going to sit back and tell me the Galaga/ms Pac Namco board is a better investement then the 60-1 then I humbly disagree. Not to mention its much easier to sell a 60-1 to a homeowner for $900 vs a dedicated Ms Pac for $500-$600. The multicade did kill the market on classic games almost as bad as the home console games. Like them, hate them, love them it really does not matter they are still going to thrive in this market. As a homeowner you have to be very cautious as there are alot of knuckleheads making these things that have no idea what they are doing. I still think you are being way to hard on the original poster.. He is a newbie that just made a bad decision with out doing his homework.

Matt Szlemko said:

Multiboards are bootleg board from china just like bootleg dvds or downloaded music. It's up to you if you consider them morally wrong, but the people making them and use them in their products are just looking to make a buck, not keep the quality of their product high. And they are cheap in comparison to buying a legitimate mint copy of each game. $1000 is a lot, but compaired to a minty donkey kong, donkey kong jr. and donkey kong 3, it was very very cheap. From my point of view you bought a rolex watch on the street corner, and are surprised its doesn't keep good time.

Like i said, i don't want to sound like a jerk, but that is the situation. It's a shame you didn't receive what you expected, but your expectations seem to be to high. If you purchase another multiboard cabinet, its going to be the same situation, you won't really know what you will receive unless you see it in person. It's gonna be made in some guys garage or basement, and he might be in business the next day or he might not.

Christopher Sockrider said:

I'm a little confused about this last post. I would not have considered the items I purchased to be cheap or illegal. Perhaps someone could explain.

Matt Szlemko said:

So you went shopping for a bootleg arcade cabinet and are surprised that you got a bootleg arcade cabinet? If you are trying to be cheap and buy illegal stuff, you shouldn't have high expectations. Most sellers are just looking to make a quick buck of people too cheap to buy the real thing. That might sound harsh, but it's just the simple truth.

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Permalink Reply by Shane on February 20, 2010 at 5:47pm

Chris, all that matters is if your happy with non original generic or multigame imitation hardware... thats your bag. Whether you agree or not, the vendor you bought your items from did mislead you in his advertising with reguards to the titles he was offering in his equipment. You said it yourself and it is apparant in the description. A true arcade collector would never paid that amount of money for generic knock off equipment. But to people who dont know much about this hobby or care about original classics and there constructs probably wouldnt mind as much as long as it does soemthing similar as classic originals did. We tend want games that were the serialized original caibnets in the best condition we can find them in for the least amount of money. It helps when they still have there original inner workings and of course the overall looks and working condition is a big factor in negotiating price. There are certain people here who have multicades and they are people who dont have the room for many arcades or just want to have all the games they can on one board. As a collector, i dont get into multicades i just buy the single classic originals for my own arcade. I personaly have the room in which to do this. We're not saying this is bad but there is a fundamental difference between the two. I personaly would feel disapointed with myself had i spent all that money for knock off stuff and then be upset with not getting what was originaly advertised. But i dont get myself into those situations because i always do my homework and ask questions. Bottom line is, if your happy with what you got... thats all that matters. But you did ask for advice (good & bad) and we did give it to you.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Szlemko on February 20, 2010 at 6:20pm

I obviously do not like multiboards, not only do i think they are bad for our hobby, but i feel that people like the original poster get scammed into buying them without realizing what they are really getting. I also agree I am being harsh, but I am trying to be 100% honest. I don't know another way to state my view without sounding mean, how do you tell someone they where foolish for trying to buy bootleg, pirated, or stolen IP, without sounding like a jerk?

I don't see how a bootleg from the cheapest supplier in china could be called anything but a cheap knock off. It's not like they are made by a large publicly traded corporation like Namco. I'm glad your customers have had success with them, but lets not act like these are made in any other way then to make a quick buck. When they do break down in a couple of years the company will be long gone and no one will be fixing them. you will just have to buy a new bootleg from the latest and cheapest supplier.

Yes, I agree some OPs will do whatever they can to make a profit, so they are more then willing to buy bootlegs. Some are also more then willing to put poker machines in illegal areas and other shady things. I think most OPs understand exactly what they are doing though, unlike most home buyers, and especially this home buyer.

When i say "And they are cheap in comparison to buying a legitimate mint copy of each game", i mean comparing a 3-1 bootleg Donkey kong set up to three separate mint dedicated 1980s nintendo cabinets with no modern day "bootleg" reproduction art work on them. My guess would that would run you at least $2k-$3k, so $1k would be a very cheap deal. Or you could compair it to a legitimate copy of a new multigame like the galaga-pac cocktails, which would also probably cost $2k-$3k new in box. I don't think a home buyer should buy one of those, but when you go looking for a cheaper version of it, you should expect a cheaper version.

As far as which would I rather have, I am an arcade collector, so I want the game that has history behind it even if that means repair problems. I do think a mame set up is a legit answer to many of these problems, but people prefer to think they have the "real" thing with these multiboards when all they really have is some bootleg.

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Permalink Reply by Captain Pinball on February 20, 2010 at 7:01pm

Matt
Well, again we all have our own opinion on these bootleg boards. They have been around over 12 years now they are not going anywhere anytime soon. If a board breaks down big deal just buy another one for under $85 and your back in business, Your DK breaks down good luck finding a repair man and if you do be prepared to shell out at least $85 with shipping etc. I still have original Pac Man,Ms Pac Man and sit down Pole Position on my route. I know when they take a dump I am looking at $85 minimum to fix. I do not see how the multibaord is bad for this hobby. If anything its the opposite. The multicade has drove the prices of classic games down making it affordable for the average collector. Dont get me wrong Matt there is nothing like beating Donkey Kong in its original cabinet, original board, joystick and buttons. I do not get the same satisfaction on a multicade.. Multicades have their purpose and they serve it well. To the hard core arcade game collector like you I can see your side. To the average home buyer looking for something cute for there kids to play and worry free then the multicade is the way to go. I stand by my last thread: I still think you could have been more politically correct with the original poster. You could have worded it a little different and not come off as (In your own words) a jerk...

Matt Szlemko said:

I obviously do not like multiboards, not only do i think they are bad for our hobby, but i feel that people like the original poster get scammed into buying them without realizing what they are really getting. I also agree I am being harsh, but I am trying to be 100% honest. I don't know another way to state my view without sounding mean, how do you tell someone they where foolish for trying to buy bootleg, pirated, or stolen IP, without sounding like a jerk?

I don't see how a bootleg from the cheapest supplier in china could be called anything but a cheap knock off. It's not like they are made by a large publicly traded corporation like Namco. I'm glad your customers have had success with them, but lets not act like these are made in any other way then to make a quick buck. When they do break down in a couple of years the company will be long gone and no one will be fixing them. you will just have to buy a new bootleg from the latest and cheapest supplier.

Yes, I agree some OPs will do whatever they can to make a profit, so they are more then willing to buy bootlegs. Some are also more then willing to put poker machines in illegal areas and other shady things. I think most OPs understand exactly what they are doing though, unlike most home buyers, and especially this home buyer.

When i say "And they are cheap in comparison to buying a legitimate mint copy of each game", i mean comparing a 3-1 bootleg Donkey kong set up to three separate mint dedicated 1980s nintendo cabinets with no modern day "bootleg" reproduction art work on them. My guess would that would run you at least $2k-$3k, so $1k would be a very cheap deal. Or you could compair it to a legitimate copy of a new multigame like the galaga-pac cocktails, which would also probably cost $2k-$3k new in box. I don't think a home buyer should buy one of those, but when you go looking for a cheaper version of it, you should expect a cheaper version.

As far as which would I rather have, I am an arcade collector, so I want the game that has history behind it even if that means repair problems. I do think a mame set up is a legit answer to many of these problems, but people prefer to think they have the "real" thing with these multiboards when all they really have is some bootleg.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Szlemko on February 20, 2010 at 7:44pm

This is kind of getting off topic, but... :)

The hobby has deluded itself into thinking these bootleg boards and bootleg artwork are the exact same thing (if not better) then the real thing. If the mulitboard sellers would sell a 3-1 Konga Donkey (plays exactly as donkey kong) or Chompman- mrs chompman reunion board (plays just like pacman) I would be perfectly fine with it. But people would not buy them as quickly, so they use the real names, and people have started to think they have the real thing when in fact all they have is a konga donkey or whatever bootleg name you want to give it. I think this is a real danger to the collecting hobby, when freshly printed bootlegs are considered the same as a 30 year old piece of video game history.

I have no problem with people having a mame set up, because i think most people understands what they are. My problem is with the multi-dks and other bootleg set ups, posing as the real thing and confusing people.

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Permalink Reply by Captain Pinball on February 20, 2010 at 9:37pm

From my experience the die hard arcade collector knows the difference between a bootleg and original. They want everything original just like I would. The home market that wants a game for his basement really could care less what is NOS if anything. They just want a plug and play w/free play option. They could care less if the board says Namco, Nintendo, Stern, Williams or Icade. As long as it works. We are totally opposite ends of the spectrum as I cant stand MAME.. My nose cringes even at the word.... We both agree there is nothing better then a dedicated Robotron to jam to. Dedicated Asteroids in your game room in attract mode.. You just cant beat the real thing...

Matt Szlemko said:

This is kind of getting off topic, but... :)

The hobby has deluded itself into thinking these bootleg boards and bootleg artwork are the exact same thing (if not better) then the real thing. If the mulitboard sellers would sell a 3-1 Konga Donkey (plays exactly as donkey kong) or Chompman- mrs chompman reunion board (plays just like pacman) I would be perfectly fine with it. But people would not buy them as quickly, so they use the real names, and people have started to think they have the real thing when in fact all they have is a konga donkey or whatever bootleg name you want to give it. I think this is a real danger to the collecting hobby, when freshly printed bootlegs are considered the same as a 30 year old piece of video game history.

I have no problem with people having a mame set up, because i think most people understands what they are. My problem is with the multi-dks and other bootleg set ups, posing as the real thing and confusing people.

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Permalink Reply by Nevus on February 20, 2010 at 9:50pm

Unfortunately, I discovered this community a week or so ago and that was after the games arrived. I did not receive non-working games. I may have mis-stated this. The DK was a multicade that had all but 3 DK games disabled. The cocktail was a straight up multicade 60-1. The vendor sells 60 in 1 multicades but also sells dedicated games including the mspacman/galaga reunion. When we were discussing a purchase on the phone, he offered me multicade in the cocktail and I declined. He was kind enough to ask me exactly how I wanted the machine to look and I sent him a picture of the cocktail mspacman/galaga from his own web site. This really helped me when the wrong game arrived.

I had a minor problem with both units upon arrival. I called the vendor right away and he led me through troubleshooting and taking the back off to look at the inside. It was then I realized the monitors were PC CRTs and the two boards were identical. When I turned on the cocktail, it was a 60 in 1 multicade.

In his defense, he immediately offered to take both back if I was unhappy. As I mentioned, I finally decided to keep the DK and send back the cocktail. He is building it now and sending me photos to be sure I'm happy. In addition, he is shipping the new unit for free and picking up the old unit for free. The freight is not cheap for these, even if he has a discount. I'm going to give him some credit there. Also, the guy answers his phone every time you call. No hiding etc.

I think the answer is that I should be embarrassed and a little disappointed. This is very interesting to me and certainly a learning experience. Thank you all for your input. I really appreciate your points of view.

BTW, I have since purchased a restored Tempest and Karate Champ (personal favorite) from a collector/seller. I met him and saw the games and other samples of his work in person. I can't wait for the arrival.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Lenardon on February 21, 2010 at 9:56am

Definatly if it is the one in the auction it is not original but a decent looking cabinet. I would consider moving the monitor to more of the original angle if an LCD. It may have been adjusted as LCDs wash out once angled too much. I just learned that when I decided to go used 17" LCD orver $200 or so for a 13 inch new shipped for a scratch build mini. Some of the new multicades are really well built and some are not. You would be best to buy from Brett, Arcadeshop or Mike's arcade if you are not sure and buying a multicade cab. For boards you can change out if Jamma. The Arcadeshop board is nice especially once you add DK2. The emulation, menu and attrct modes are also very good for cabinet use. I have yet to see the Team Play boards with all DK games on them as they are the only licensed ones. I am curious how Team Play's menu looks. I do remember playing their centipede Multigame years ago. Suprising but the Chinese boards have not had a menu lift since developed.

Michael

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Permalink Reply by Captain Pinball on February 21, 2010 at 10:02am

I agree there are many nice multicades and alot of junk. Mikes and arcade shop are two great sources. I have not dabbled in much more the the ones made by Icade. I do not like Arcade Shops becuase you have to download all the games. I just want something plug and play as I have never had much luck with downloads. I made Clays multiwilliams 10 years ago and it came out great. I still have yet to try Jrocks as he cant seem to get back with me. We already beat that dead horse.

Michael Lenardon said:

Definatly if it is the one in the auction it is not original but a decent looking cabinet. I would consider moving the monitor to more of the original angle if an LCD. It may have been adjusted as LCDs wash out once angled too much. I just learned that when I decided to go used 17" LCD orver $200 or so for a 13 inch new shipped for a scratch build mini. Some of the new multicades are really well built and some are not. You would be best to buy from Brett, Arcadeshop or Mike's arcade if you are not sure and buying a multicade cab. For boards you can change out if Jamma. The Arcadeshop board is nice especially once you add DK2. The emulation, menu and attrct modes are also very good for cabinet use. I have yet to see the Team Play boards with all DK games on them as they are the only licensed ones. I am curious how Team Play's menu looks. I do remember playing their centipede Multigame years ago. Suprising but the Chinese boards have not had a menu lift since developed.

Michael

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Permalink Reply by Eric Bousquet on February 21, 2010 at 10:58am

Hey Greg,
I'm actually setting up to turn one of my cabinets into a 60-1 multi-game unit and I was wondering if you wouldn't mind if I PM'd you and asked you a few questions about them?

Let me know, ERIC

Captain Pinball said:

I agree there are many nice multicades and alot of junk. Mikes and arcade shop are two great sources. I have not dabbled in much more the the ones made by Icade. I do not like Arcade Shops becuase you have to download all the games. I just want something plug and play as I have never had much luck with downloads. I made Clays multiwilliams 10 years ago and it came out great. I still have yet to try Jrocks as he cant seem to get back with me. We already beat that dead horse.

Michael Lenardon said:

Definatly if it is the one in the auction it is not original but a decent looking cabinet. I would consider moving the monitor to more of the original angle if an LCD. It may have been adjusted as LCDs wash out once angled too much. I just learned that when I decided to go used 17" LCD orver $200 or so for a 13 inch new shipped for a scratch build mini. Some of the new multicades are really well built and some are not. You would be best to buy from Brett, Arcadeshop or Mike's arcade if you are not sure and buying a multicade cab. For boards you can change out if Jamma. The Arcadeshop board is nice especially once you add DK2. The emulation, menu and attrct modes are also very good for cabinet use. I have yet to see the Team Play boards with all DK games on them as they are the only licensed ones. I am curious how Team Play's menu looks. I do remember playing their centipede Multigame years ago. Suprising but the Chinese boards have not had a menu lift since developed.

Michael

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Permalink Reply by Nevus on February 21, 2010 at 11:18am

It's not an LCD but a PC CRT. I would like to move it and that may be my first bit of work on a cabinet. The wiring, power supply etc are all new or in new condition. The controls are new.

Michael Lenardon said:

Definatly if it is the one in the auction it is not original but a decent looking cabinet. I would consider moving the monitor to more of the original angle if an LCD.

Michael

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